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Subscribe, rate, and share to support the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, PocketCast or wherever you listen.

Follow us on LinkedIn for updates and join the conversation.


Welcome to “Terms of Service,” the podcast that dives deep into the fine print of our digital lives. Every time we check the box on an app, website, or online service, we’re making choices—often without knowing the full story. From giving away our privacy to navigating complex security settings, we’re all part of a digital landscape that’s constantly evolving.


Join us as we unpack the themes that shape our online experiences: privacy, security, safety, and the everyday permissions we grant without a second thought. We’ll explore how AI, agency, and decentralized technologies are reshaping our digital world, often in ways that fly under the radar. And because no conversation about our digital lives would be complete without it, we’ll tackle the legal and policy implications that come with our clicks, swipes, and taps.


Whether you’re tech-savvy or just trying to keep up, “Terms of Service” invites you to join the conversation about the hidden costs of convenience in the digital age. Tune in to explore, question, and rethink the terms we often accept without a second thought, and let’s challenge the norms of our digital lives together.


Credits

Produced by Mary Camacho & Nicole Klau Ibarra. Music and sound production is by Arthur Vincent at Sonorlab.


Behind the Mic


Co-founder of Holochain, and CEO of Holo, Mary leads the development of peer-to-peer and decentralised technologies that empower users and redefine digital interactions. With over 20 years in tech and telecom, her career has been dedicated to enhancing user control, privacy, and digital autonomy.


Mary's educational background as a social scientist grounds the explorations at intersection of sociality and technology, exposing the trade-offs in privacy, security, and agency inherent in our digital choices. On “Terms of Service,” she invites listeners to rethink these everyday interactions and the broader implications of AI, distributed tech, and legal frameworks on our digital lives, advocating for a future where individuals have greater control over their data and decisions.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryfcamacho/


Nicole is a visionary entrepreneur with a diverse background, she is passionate about social system design and has helped multiple ventures, Including the IKIGAI Project, her non-profit helping people build essential 21st-century skills- many of which intersect with the topics discussed in Terms Of Service.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-klau-ibarra-b26818137/



Arthur Vincent is a seasoned Music and Audio Producer with a passion for pushing the boundaries of music technology. As a music producer and sound designer, he has crafted innovative audio experiences for global brands like Heineken, Philips, and Cupra. Alongside his creative work, Arthur is also an expert in audio technology, mastering both hardware and software tools to deliver high-quality, immersive sound.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-vincent/

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Episode Summary

In this episode of Terms of Service, host Mary Camacho speaks with Elizabeth Eagen, Deputy Director of the Citizens and Technology (CAT) Lab at Cornell University. Elizabeth shares how her work in human rights led her to explore the impact of emerging technologies on civil society, and how citizen science can be used to shape better digital spaces. Together, they discuss algorithmic bias, data ownership, community-driven research, and how regulation often lags behind both the harm and the science. With sharp insights and powerful stories, Elizabeth unpacks the complex dynamics of platform accountability, participatory research, and digital equity.

Key Takeaways

Topics Covered / Timestamped Sections

Guest Bio and Links

Elizabeth Eagen is Deputy Director of the Citizens and Technology Lab at Cornell University, which works with communities to study the effects of technology on society and test ideas for changing digital spaces to better serve the public interest, so that digital power is guided by evidence and accountable to the public. She was also a 2022-23 Practitioner Fellow at Stanford University’s Digital Civil Society Lab. Previously, she established and led the Emerging Technology portfolio at the Open Society Foundations’ Information Program. This initiative funded the use of emergent technologies in evidence and advocacy, building the role of knowledge management, and the use of data visualization tools, data science, statistics, and new media tactics by civil society and policymakers. She founded the Human Rights Data Initiative, and led the Urbanization Working Group, which explored urbanization and open society through programming, research, and debate. She holds an MA/MPP in Public Policy and Russian and Eastern European Studies from the University of Michigan, and a BA from Macalester College.

Resources Mentioned

Further Reading / Related Episodes

Call to Action

Want to know what it means to shift power in research, regulation, and digital life? Don’t miss this conversation with Elizabeth Eagen, and learn how citizen science can create more inclusive and accountable tech systems.

🎧 Listen now: Episode Link

Credits

Host: Mary Camacho

Guest: Elizabeth Eagen

Produced by Terms of Service Podcast

Sound Design: Arthur Vincent and Sonor Lab

Co-Producers: Nicole Klau Ibarra & Mary Camacho


","content_text":"EPISODE SUMMARY\n\nIn this episode of Terms of Service, host Mary Camacho speaks with Elizabeth\nEagen, Deputy Director of the Citizens and Technology (CAT) Lab at Cornell\nUniversity. Elizabeth shares how her work in human rights led her to explore the\nimpact of emerging technologies on civil society, and how citizen science can be\nused to shape better digital spaces. Together, they discuss algorithmic bias,\ndata ownership, community-driven research, and how regulation often lags behind\nboth the harm and the science. With sharp insights and powerful stories,\nElizabeth unpacks the complex dynamics of platform accountability, participatory\nresearch, and digital equity.\n\n\nKEY TAKEAWAYS\n\n * The CAT Lab supports communities in generating their own research questions\n and data to investigate online life, shifting power dynamics away from\n institutions.\n * Effective regulation of technology (e.g. AI hiring algorithms) requires\n better alignment between legal timelines and scientific inquiry.\n * Community-led research can influence both platform behavior and public\n policy—while honoring participant agency.\n * The human cost of data loss or mismanagement is real—whether in human rights\n documentation or everyday digital life.\n * Human values like mutual aid and accountability must be embedded into\n technological systems and policy frameworks to ensure equity and resilience.\n\n\nTOPICS COVERED / TIMESTAMPED SECTIONS\n\n * 00:48 – Introduction to Elizabeth Eagen and the CAT Lab’s mission: “citizen\n science for the internet.”\n * 02:53 – Redefining research through community participation and shifting who\n owns the data.\n * 05:39 – Institutional barriers to community-led science, including IRB\n processes and timeline mismatches.\n * 08:50 – Real-world issues CAT Lab explores: algorithmic hiring bias, content\n moderation, and digital inclusion.\n * 11:20 – Community impact: research results go first to participants, enabling\n operational improvements.\n * 12:52 – Case Study: Local Law 144 and AI auditing for hiring discrimination\n in NYC.\n * 21:00 – Regulation is often slower than technological impact—but still faster\n than science.\n * 23:40 – Elizabeth’s journey from Human Rights Watch to building the Emerging\n Tech portfolio at Open Society Foundations.\n * 25:00 – The responsibility to protect data as people—not just points.\n * 29:48 – Tradeoffs in data ownership, portability, and government involvement.\n * 35:16 – Digital identity and the folklore of “messifying” databases for\n privacy and security.\n * 37:08 – The risks of corporate donations of tech tools to civil society—and\n the ethics of mutual dependency.\n\n\nGUEST BIO AND LINKS\n\nElizabeth Eagen is Deputy Director of the Citizens and Technology Lab at Cornell\nUniversity, which works with communities to study the effects of technology on\nsociety and test ideas for changing digital spaces to better serve the public\ninterest, so that digital power is guided by evidence and accountable to the\npublic. She was also a 2022-23 Practitioner Fellow at Stanford University’s\nDigital Civil Society Lab. Previously, she established and led the Emerging\nTechnology portfolio at the Open Society Foundations’ Information Program. This\ninitiative funded the use of emergent technologies in evidence and advocacy,\nbuilding the role of knowledge management, and the use of data visualization\ntools, data science, statistics, and new media tactics by civil society and\npolicymakers. She founded the Human Rights Data Initiative, and led the\nUrbanization Working Group, which explored urbanization and open society through\nprogramming, research, and debate. She holds an MA/MPP in Public Policy and\nRussian and Eastern European Studies from the University of Michigan, and a BA\nfrom Macalester College.\n\n * Citizens and Technology Lab\n * Elizabeth on Linkedin\n * Elizabeth on Bsky\n\n\nRESOURCES MENTIONED\n\n * Local Law 144 - NYC legislation requiring audits for AI-based hiring tools.\n * IRB (Institutional Review Board) – Systems for ethical oversight of academic\n research.\n * Data and Society Research Institute – Partner in algorithmic accountability\n research.\n * Open Society Foundations – Supporting rights-based civil society through\n tech.\n\n\nFURTHER READING / RELATED EPISODES\n\n * Episode 3: \"Empowerment Tech: Unlocking Customer Data for Better Choices and\n Better Business\"\n * Episode 5: Regenerating Social Fabric & Innovating Governance\n * Episode 7: \"Breaking the Binary: Rethinking Law, Power, and Possibility\"\n\n\nCALL TO ACTION\n\nWant to know what it means to shift power in research, regulation, and digital\nlife? Don’t miss this conversation with Elizabeth Eagen, and learn how citizen\nscience can create more inclusive and accountable tech systems.\n\n🎧 Listen now: Episode Link\n\n\nCREDITS\n\nHost: Mary Camacho\n\nGuest: Elizabeth Eagen\n\nProduced by Terms of Service Podcast\n\nSound Design: Arthur Vincent and Sonor Lab\n\nCo-Producers: Nicole Klau Ibarra & Mary Camacho\n\n\n","image":"https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/images/item-cc213ced2e219f53c3bc0d28feb9276d.jpg","date_published":"2025-04-22T13:00:00.000Z","_microfeed":{"is_audio":true,"is_document":false,"is_external_url":false,"is_video":false,"is_image":false,"web_url":"https://podcast.termsofservice.xyz/i/beyond-the-dataset-building-human-centered-resear-3ZuIxiFkys2/","json_url":"https://podcast.termsofservice.xyz/i/3ZuIxiFkys2/json/","rss_url":"https://podcast.termsofservice.xyz/i/3ZuIxiFkys2/rss/","guid":"3ZuIxiFkys2","status":"published","duration_hhmmss":"00:41:26","itunes:title":"Beyond the Dataset: Building Human-Centered Research","itunes:episodeType":"full","itunes:season":1,"itunes:episode":9,"date_published_short":"Tue Apr 22 2025","date_published_ms":1745326800000}}],"_microfeed":{"microfeed_version":"0.1.5","base_url":"https://podcast.termsofservice.xyz","categories":[{"name":"Business","categories":[{"name":"Entrepreneurship"}]},{"name":"Technology"},{"name":"Society & Culture"}],"subscribe_methods":[{"name":"RSS","type":"rss","url":"https://podcast.termsofservice.xyz/rss/","image":"https://podcast.termsofservice.xyz/assets/brands/subscribe/rss.png","enabled":true,"editable":false,"id":"5KuKX2TWFWr"},{"name":"JSON","type":"json","url":"https://podcast.termsofservice.xyz/json/","image":"https://podcast.termsofservice.xyz/assets/brands/subscribe/json.png","enabled":true,"editable":false,"id":"ESlJHyH8pYk"}],"description_text":"Subscribe, rate, and share to support the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,\nPocketCast or wherever you listen.\n\nFollow us on LinkedIn for updates and join the conversation.\n\n\n\n\nWelcome to “Terms of Service,” the podcast that dives deep into the fine print\nof our digital lives. Every time we check the box on an app, website, or online\nservice, we’re making choices—often without knowing the full story. From giving\naway our privacy to navigating complex security settings, we’re all part of a\ndigital landscape that’s constantly evolving.\n\n\n\n\nJoin us as we unpack the themes that shape our online experiences: privacy,\nsecurity, safety, and the everyday permissions we grant without a second\nthought. We’ll explore how AI, agency, and decentralized technologies are\nreshaping our digital world, often in ways that fly under the radar. And because\nno conversation about our digital lives would be complete without it, we’ll\ntackle the legal and policy implications that come with our clicks, swipes, and\ntaps.\n\n\n\n\nWhether you’re tech-savvy or just trying to keep up, “Terms of Service” invites\nyou to join the conversation about the hidden costs of convenience in the\ndigital age. Tune in to explore, question, and rethink the terms we often accept\nwithout a second thought, and let’s challenge the norms of our digital lives\ntogether.\n\n\n\n\n\nCREDITS\n\nProduced by Mary Camacho & Nicole Klau Ibarra. Music and sound production is by\nArthur Vincent at Sonorlab.\n\n\n\n\n\nBEHIND THE MIC\n\n\n\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-25fc934acfff709d9f9f80aa00494e2e.png]\n\nCo-founder of Holochain, and CEO of Holo, Mary leads the development of\npeer-to-peer and decentralised technologies that empower users and redefine\ndigital interactions. With over 20 years in tech and telecom, her career has\nbeen dedicated to enhancing user control, privacy, and digital autonomy.\n\n\n\n\nMary's educational background as a social scientist grounds the explorations at\nintersection of sociality and technology, exposing the trade-offs in privacy,\nsecurity, and agency inherent in our digital choices. On “Terms of Service,” she\ninvites listeners to rethink these everyday interactions and the broader\nimplications of AI, distributed tech, and legal frameworks on our digital lives,\nadvocating for a future where individuals have greater control over their data\nand decisions.\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-fea03ed04120277051a31cb932450e3a.png]\n\nhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/maryfcamacho/\n\n\n\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-5ad7639f63416407575d251f59fc2ffd.png]\n\nNicole is a visionary entrepreneur with a diverse background, she is passionate\nabout social system design and has helped multiple ventures, Including the\nIKIGAI Project, her non-profit helping people build essential 21st-century\nskills- many of which intersect with the topics discussed in Terms Of Service.\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-7339db02160590446c70bd8ed111a7c8.png]\n\nhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-klau-ibarra-b26818137/\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-6076d176375ba31529acbbb2f715133e.png]\n\nArthur Vincent is a seasoned Music and Audio Producer with a passion for pushing\nthe boundaries of music technology. As a music producer and sound designer, he\nhas crafted innovative audio experiences for global brands like Heineken,\nPhilips, and Cupra. Alongside his creative work, Arthur is also an expert in\naudio technology, mastering both hardware and software tools to deliver\nhigh-quality, immersive sound.\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-a3a2f1765cb87b9daac4c46e9455a835.png]\n\nhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-vincent/","itunes:title":"The Terms of Service Podcast","copyright":"©2024 Mary Camacho","itunes:type":"episodic","itunes:email":"info@termsofservice.xyz","items_sort_order":"newest_first"}}